Epic and High Magic

[Sean Patrick Fannon]

Let's get into a discussion about this. Tommy makes a great case for the idea that magic has to be as epic and over the top as everything else for Shaintar to truly be "unleashed," so give me your ideas and your wish lists in this area.

[shadd4d]

A way for the magic to be more great and epic. Things like traveling to multiple countries in a day, summoning an army, the sort of thing that makes for an epic quest. I guess I think that the powers in the Fantasy Companion and SW:EX work well for combat but they don't work well for other applications of a longer duration, things like summoning or some such that won't have a duration of combat rounds.

Another example of epic magic is just a lot more utility stuff: having acres grow, re-growing forests, changing the very terrain features of a battle field, creating rivers, streams and lakes. Reshaping the land like clay or creating a bog or a swamp in the middle of the battlefield or enemy castle. The sort of magic that creates terrain features or regions which are repeated in tales, songs and fables. I'm not asking for Ars Magica freedom but some of the breadth and depth of effects would be a stab in the direction, I guess.

But all these uses seem to break out of the combat powers in FC and SW:EX. Some of them appear like rituals, such as the cultist spells in RoC or as a storytelling device in maybe other games. I can describe the effect, but I'm not sure how it would work mechanically.

Don

[boldfist]

Shaintar already has a solution to the "duration" aspect of your question for summoning and long lasting effects. Appendix one (Extended Casting) is a great addition to help capture the epic feel of Shaintar's magic. And the Edge "Summoner" gives an NPC (or if the GM allows a PC) the ability to bring a large amount of combatants to the table.

As for the ability to change the terrain and/or traveling large distances... we used a Legendary spell we nicknamed Mass Teleport to get players around the map quickly if necessary. Perhaps the new book should address this with something similar.

[TommyBrownell]

shadd4d is thinking along the same lines I am. Right now, magic is great for combat purposes, and not much else. The ability to actually affect lasting changes with magic, even if it does take a a lot of time or power, is needed (IMHO).

Permanent effects, by design, are missing from Savage Worlds magic. In most settings, that's fine. I don't sweat over it in Deadlands or Solomon Kane. I want a player playing an Archmage in Shaintar to be able to great a magically powered servant made of stone that's not going to lapse into its base materials rounds later.

The Extended Casting rules boosted duration, and that's good...but what about range? Specifically on spells like Clairvoyance? Using it on a whim works fine how it is written, requiring a wizard to ace a few times for truly useful ranges...but with an extended range rule for rituals or the like, Clairvoyance then covers Scrying without just hoping you're going to roll high enough to get the range you need.

Just some "off the top of my head" thoughts.

[islan]

Well as for making magical items (including golems), I've always thought that there needs to be a fantasy setting that has some kind of recipe list for crafting. D&D might keep it simple with just offering a gold cost, but what about having things require griffon feathers or the water from a mystical spring; you know, the kinds of things that require an entire quest on their own to retrieve. That has always sounded a little exciting to me.

[Sean Patrick Fannon]

Just wanted to stir the coals up a little. This is a total teaser, since it doesn't give you what High Magic effects are going to be possible, but I did want to let you know where things are potentially headed...

HIGH MAGIC SPELL
Requirements: Legendary, Archmage OR Archon OR Pathmaster, Knowledge: Magic d8+
Legendary spellcasters cast legendary spells, using High Magic to create mystical effects of grand vision, or terrible consequence.
Each time this edge is taken, the hero selects one spell he knows. He may now make use of any and all High Magic options listed for that power (see Powers, later in this section). This edge may be taken any number of times, applied to a new power each time.

[TommyBrownell]

Just wanted to stir the coals up a little. This is a total teaser, since it doesn't give you what High Magic effects are going to be possible, but I did want to let you know where things are potentially headed...

HIGH MAGIC SPELL
Requirements: Legendary, Archmage OR Archon OR Pathmaster, Knowledge: Magic d8+
Legendary spellcasters cast legendary spells, using High Magic to create mystical effects of grand vision, or terrible consequence.
Each time this edge is taken, the hero selects one spell he knows. He may now make use of any and all High Magic options listed for that power (see Powers, later in this section). This edge may be taken any number of times, applied to a new power each time.

Nice.

Sounds intriguing indeed.

[Jim_Davenport]

Should have started reading this one first. My high magic thoughts follow the general trend here.

viewtopic.php?p=1766#p1766

[Sean Patrick Fannon]

Just wanted to drop a note here and let anyone know who's paying attention that there's been a lot of work done on this front. Quite frankly, it delayed the entire development process considerably.

This is not, as it turns out, a bad thing.

Why?

Because what comes out of this will be rules for magic that will absolute rock the Savage World to its foundation. People who want "moar" for their fantasy magic will get it in ways they might never have imagined.

I still have a ways to go, mind you. All of the Powers need some High Magic effects added in, and that's a whole universe of design and development all its own.

Just to give you an idea, however, here are some sections that have been added to the book to accommodate this new direction.

* High Magic (Long term, big, and permanent effects)
* Ritual Magic
* Places of Power; Times of Power; Sources of Power (including blood sacrifices for Acolytes)
* Filaments and Loci (basically, ley lines in Shaintar)

In other words, magic in Shaintar (and in any campaign that makes use of these rules) is going way beyond the 'spend some PPs, zap an effect' for those who seek more.

(See what you did, Tommy? )

[TommyBrownell]

Just wanted to drop a note here and let anyone know who's paying attention that there's been a lot of work done on this front. Quite frankly, it delayed the entire development process considerably.

This is not, as it turns out, a bad thing.

Why?

Because what comes out of this will be rules for magic that will absolute rock the Savage World to its foundation. People who want "moar" for their fantasy magic will get it in ways they might never have imagined.

I still have a ways to go, mind you. All of the Powers need some High Magic effects added in, and that's a whole universe of design and development all its own.

Just to give you an idea, however, here are some sections that have been added to the book to accommodate this new direction.

* High Magic (Long term, big, and permanent effects)
* Ritual Magic
* Places of Power; Times of Power; Sources of Power (including blood sacrifices for Acolytes)
* Filaments and Loci (basically, ley lines in Shaintar)

In other words, magic in Shaintar (and in any campaign that makes use of these rules) is going way beyond the 'spend some PPs, zap an effect' for those who seek more.

(See what you did, Tommy? )

*ahem*

YES!